Author Topic: VHF signal over the air  (Read 9287 times)

Offline audispider

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VHF signal over the air
« on: February 13, 2006, 12:18:36 AM »
ok guys, attached is a picture of my antennaweb.org read out...i'm getting everything except for cbs...

now the manufacturer of my antenna said that i would be able to pick up channel 9 on the uhf antenna...look here

any ideas why i'm not able to pick up cbs?  another issue is that this channel list says:

Greenville NC     10     WNCT     CBS

when antennaweb.org says channel 9...

i'm gunna check with WNCT...
open to some suggestions.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 12:19:34 AM by audispider »


Offline MacHead

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 01:33:23 AM »
Do you have any software to check the signal strength? You have the Fusion software? Do you pick up any signal at all? My Fusion signal checking software has been a big help. The version 3.3 seems to work well (with the new version of Java)

I am having trouble getting some on the stations near me also and I am only 5-6 miles away (but on the other side a big hill).  I had to go with the big monster 36 element antenna to pick up anything at all, and I still don't get all the local affiliates.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 01:37:09 AM by MacHead »
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Offline rampy

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 02:14:21 AM »
48 miles is a long way, especially for lower VHF... Youd need a monster VHF antenna, and amp... probably an antenna that's tuned to get in that specific frequency/channel. 

rampy

Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 03:02:38 AM »
that sucks, the UHF signal from the same distance and same direction and i'm pulling 100 percent signal strength...thats pretty good at 50 miles right?

to answer the other question, i do not get anything at all...i manually added the channel to the fusion app and it says no signal :(
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 03:03:34 AM by audispider »

Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 03:17:58 AM »
channel 9 is on the lower end of VHF ?  i thought 2-7 was low and 8 - 13 was high...

would it make a difference?  i'm not gunna get a bigger antenna thats designed to that specific frequency/channel and an amp, just to pick up FRICKIN CBS!!!

Offline MacHead

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 03:58:44 AM »
The other thing to consider is that when a broadcast antenna is designed the station has to build it with a footprint or coverage area which has to get approval from the fed (larger footprint = more $). You may not be in the desired demographic area, so you may be out of luck (considering you get one affilate that is the same distance and compass orientation and not the other).
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Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 11:29:15 PM »
why is it more difficult to pick up VHF over a distance of 50 miles?

i'm picking up UHF at 100 percent! 

i emailed the CBS affialiate and they suggested I buy a VHF antenna...and then i could buy a UHF/VHF combiner and have it all on one line...but damn, i wish i had known this before I bought the antenna....antenna's direct made it sound like it wouldnt be a problem at all...although they did not ask my distance from the tower...

so...anyways..maybe i'll invest in a VHF antenna before football season next  year...but untill then i'm straight...

lata ya'll
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Offline dhascall

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 08:32:15 PM »
ok guys, attached is a picture of my antennaweb.org read out...i'm getting everything except for cbs...

now the manufacturer of my antenna said that i would be able to pick up channel 9 on the uhf antenna...look here

any ideas why i'm not able to pick up cbs?  another issue is that this channel list says:

Greenville NC     10     WNCT     CBS

when antennaweb.org says channel 9...

i'm gunna check with WNCT...
open to some suggestions.

I'm confused.  Are you trying to get WNCT analog channel 9 or the digital WNCT-DT, which is actually on (Digital) channel 10?  If it is the DTV on channel 10 that you are after, 48 miles is a far piece for DTV, regardless if it is VHF or UHF.  You should be able to get analog channel 9 at 48 miles with a small outdoor antenna but with DTV Over-the-air (OTA), 48 miles is really pushing it. A major rub is that broadcasters treat OTA DTV viewers like #@%^$#!  They really want you to use cable / dish to get their DTV.  As an example, WNCT analog channel 9 broadcasts with 316,000 watts of power while WNCT-DT only uses 35,000 watts, making it probably hard to see at 18 miles, let alone 48.

I am a DXer (one who likes to pick up TV and radio stations far away).  Some DXers have watched DTV signals 200, 500 even 900 miles away under RARE weather / atmospheric conditions BUT DTV's biggest rub is that the signal just does not go as far as anaolg.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 08:42:47 PM by dhascall »

Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2006, 11:41:13 PM »
I am trying to pick up the digital station on channel 10.  In fact, the CBS station that I'm trying to pick up is broadcasting on the same antenna tower as WITN, an NBC affialiate, that broadcasts on UHF and with the antenna mentioned I am picking up that station at 100% signal!

i see what your saying about the amount of power on analog vice digital.  does the fcc give them a minimum amount of power that they have to broadcast at?  i contacted the CBS affiliate and they were very helpful.  They said that in their market they have had more satisfied customers with a VHF antenna vice a UHF/VHF antenna...

so, i guess the only option left to try is to buy a VHF antenna and then a UHF/VHF combiner and run it that way...maybe i'll invest that money when football season starts up again!


Offline dhascall

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2006, 12:51:51 AM »
Again, man, tils all about the power.  True enough, WNCT-DT and WINT-DT (and the 7/9 analog's) share 570+ meter high antenna, WINT-DT boasts 795,000 Kw of power, while WNCT is either 28 Kw or 35 Kw, depending on what FCC info that I look at.  Sucks that WNCT is screwing OTA listeners by underpowering their DT OTA xmtr. 

There is no minimum power and some mid - small market stations have flea power DT xmtrs.  They do not care at all about OTA viewers.  I'm guessing that may change in 2009 but I'd call WNCT and see why they are only using 35 Kw.  You'd need a big antenna, to grab that.  It actually is good that they are on VHF.  Most DT OTA signals have been relocated to the UHF band, regardless if the analog is VHF or UHF.  If they were running that weak of a signal on UHF, a big antenna may actually lock on a more powerful / distant DT station, which would confuse everything.

Wonder if everyone will really get the two free OTA STB per household, that Congress is mandating???

Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2006, 01:03:21 AM »
where did you get all this information?

who is going to pay for the 2 free OTA STBs?

Offline dhascall

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2006, 02:26:20 AM »
I'm not sure if everybody will get one but I think that it still is being hashed out.  Here is one of my first google search results: http://www.cato.org/tech/tk/040930-tk.html.  If everone gets one or two, I'll use one as a DX machine. :)  Remember in 2009, every TV that gets a signal OTA will be obsolete, unless it's hooked to a STB.

Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2006, 02:31:15 AM »
i meant where did you get the information about how powerful stations are broadcasting?

Offline dhascall

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2006, 12:05:53 PM »
i meant where did you get the information about how powerful stations are broadcasting?

Your Taxpayer Dollars at work!  Look at the FCC TV Query Database: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html.  Across the top, there are links to the AM and FM FCC db, also.

Offline audispider

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Re: VHF signal over the air
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2006, 11:22:57 PM »
here is the response from WNCT, the CBS affiliate:

I know this sounds crazy, but we are currently broadcast the maximum allowed power the FCC will authorize for WNCT-DT! I know the 35 KW as opposed to 795 KW sounds like a big difference, and it is. The difference is with the frequencies we each transmit. Ours is high band VHF (channel 10) and theirs is UHF (channel 32). When the FCC allocated the frequencies to each station, they also authorized an ERP (effective radiated power) level that would replicate the coverage area that each station had with their analog signal. WNCT-DT originally was granted an ERP of 28 KW. We hired an outside engineering firm to study this assigned ERP and successfully petitioned the FCC for an increase to 35 KW, to replicate our analog coverage area. If you?ll check the ERP of other VHF digital stations, you?ll see that we are pretty much in the norm with the other stations.

 

Just as a reference, the maximum allowed ERP for a low band VHF analog station is 100 KW. For high band VHF its 316 KW, but for UHF its 5000 KW! Yes, that?s 5 million watts!!! And they all three have about the same coverage area. The digital transmissions do not take as much power as the analog to achieve the same coverage area.