Snapstream's SnApple PVR

[g808]

http://www.snapstream.com/community/articles/macmini/default.asp

Points of interest:

One of the components it uses is a SATA 2.5" notebook hard drive. Based on our testing, the hard drive in this system is not fast enough to timeshift a currently recording HD stream. SD timeshifting with one tuner works, but any more will cause jerky video playback. The best way to fix this is by using an external firewire or USB 2.0 hard drive.

when using a desktop resolution of 1280x720 the desktop was overscanned. We were not able to correct for this overscan with Intel's default drivers and we were not able to tweak our settings with PowerStrip, a tool that gives you complete control over the display settings. Setting the resolution to 1024x768 allowed our television to display the desktop without overscanning the video. Then we used Beyond TV's "Non-Square Pixel Compensation" to produce perfect HD video when using a square aspect ratio on a widescreen display.

[smokeyalien]

Well that's mighty interesting. It would have been better if they had laid out the costs of all those parts and software.  I guess it also goes to show just how huge a difference the RPM of your hard drive makes on this sort of thing.

Smokeyalien

[Crim]

So I guess that means 5400 rpm drives aren't HD timeshift capable. Personally I would have loaded client software onto the system and added it to an existing network to stream media to it. Considering the Mini's small size using it as a client system makes the most sense IMO instead of cluttering your entertainment area up with extra USB gadgets like external HDDs since the Mini is too small for large storage (something I wish Apple would change, I love to have a 3.5 HDD in there).

[g808]

I totally agree with ya Crim. I've been saying I'd love get a Mac mini as a client box, but the video drivers are a concern for me. It's easier to find a resolution to work with LCD and plasma monitors/TV's, but I suspect would be tougher with a rear projection or plain old SDTV. I don't see why they couldn't get something like PowerStrip to work though.

[SuperG]

Everyone seem to be glossing over this is a stoopid expensive machine for a client.

As far as full size drives, several manufacturers make external USB or Firewire drives/hubs that are in boxes the exact size, shape and color as the mini. You can stack em or put them side by side. Tuners aren't THAT big and can be stowed. My concern is all the extra power blocks needed to run this stuff. That's the one BIG advantage to an all in one box. The mini is aparently grossly underpowered to provide for any additional perepherals internally, and given the space it's understood. You can buy adapters to get from the internal SATA connector to a SATA cable connector which would allow you to add your own full size drive, but you won't have enough power to run it I believe without some external power device.

The odd thing is the Drive's SATA controller is 1.5Gb/Sec.....which SHOULD in theory be enough speed for PVR functions. I didn't realize the drive was a 5400 rpm model though.

[Crim]

Everyone seem to be glossing over this is a stoopid expensive machine for a client.

So you think that spenting, at minimium, $800 is less expensive for an XP or Linux based client system? Wait! Thats the same cost as a Mini!

Granted you can get (much) better hardware overall (the CoreDuo is pretty compelling but the onboard video sucks) but you can't bet the small form factor.

[SuperG]

You can build a client for much less and pick your hardware.

It's all a taste thing. I've got one sitting here. It's sexy, but I could have spent money on PC parts and got more for less.

(though No Mac to learn on.....)

[timrob]

So I guess that means 5400 rpm drives aren't HD timeshift capable.

Arrgh!!!  I wish I would have know that a few months ago.  Anybody wanna buy a 400 GB Seagate 

[SuperG]

The following are EXAMPLE SPECS.

DO NOT BUILD THIS PC AND COME ASKING ME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT!!!! IT'S A SAMPLE SPEC, I HAVE NEITHER BUILT NOR PLAN TO BUILD THIS PC.  HARDWARE COMPATABILITY IS LOOKED AT BUT NOT VERIFIED.
Antec Solution Series NSK2400 Black/Silver Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W ATX12V v2.0 Power Supply - Retail - $84.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3250824AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $94.00
BFG Tech BFGR73256GSOCE Geforce 7300GS Supporting 512MB(256MB on board) GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail - $75
CORSAIR VALUE SELECT 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Unbuffered System Memory Model VS1GBKIT667D2 - Retail - $77
ASUS P5RD2-VM Socket T (LGA 775) ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $72.00
Intel Pentium D 805 Smithfield 533MHz FSB LGA 775 Dual Core,EM64T Processor Model BX80551PE2666FN - Retail - $129.50
LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model SHW160P6S05 - OEM - $35.99

PC TOTAL $568.48

Item's left out of pricing and reasons for:
Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor, Windows XP SP2: These items would have to be purchased with a Mac Mini.
Capture Devices: Personal preference reigns here, but in the case of the Mini you are limited to USB solutions.

Now while not TOP END stuff, lets compare Specs⁴: (perceived advantage in Blue)

		Apple	PC
Processor		1.66Ghz Intel DuoCore	2.66Ghz Intel DuoCore [/color]
Memory		512MB DDR2 5200	1GB DDR2 5200 [/color]
Hard Drive		80GB SATA 1.5Mb/Sec	250GB SATA II W/ 3.0Gb/Sec [/color]
Video Card		Onboard Only Intel GMA950 W 64MB Shared Sytem Memory	Onboard ATI Radeon X300-based 2D/3D W/ assumed shared memory OR PCI-E X16 slot with BFG 7300GS [/color]
Sound		Onboard w/ Optical/Digital Audio Out1 [/color]	Onboard w/ 6 Channel output
Optical Drive		DVD+R DL discs at up to 2.4x speed	DVD+R DL discs at up to 8X [/color]
Case		"You gotta be kidding me!" small2 [/color]	MicroATX Form Factor
Noise		Eirie Quiet for a computer....except when the DVD is running.3 [/color]	It's a PC with stock cooling....No way Homebrew can win this without sacrafice of pride and budget

¹ Sound seems to go to Apple, but you can add a theater quality sound card with the budget you have left on the PC.
²No, Seriously.....this thing is CRAZY small.
³Then it sounds like you have a Super Huey in the room.
⁴Anybody wishing to dabble with Tables on the forum better have a gun handy, cause its gonna either be you or the PC that gets a lead supplement.

Now if you'll forgive me, somebody owes me the last hour and a half of my life back...........

[Crim]

Drop the 7300 GS and switch out for these parts and you have a much better system:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103588
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130529

And because you didn't include any sort of cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118112

That is unless you meant to use the stock cooler in which case shame on you.

Correction:

2.66Ghz Intel DuoCore (Advantage)

Wrong, the CPU you selected isn't a CoreDuo and even then the CoreDuo is a much better architecture then the Prescott based CPU you choose.

[SuperG]

The stock cooler is fine for a machine that won't ever see CPU usage over 40-50%. It's a PVR, not a gamer.

And yeah, ALL the components could have been better, the point is it already smokes the mini and I didn't spend as much.

[SuperG]

Correction:

2.66Ghz Intel DuoCore (Advantage)

Wrong, the CPU you selected isn't a CoreDuo and even then the CoreDuo is a much better architecture then the Prescott based CPU you choose.

The CPU I posted is a Smithfield Dual Core. Will what I posted handle PVR function as well as the Apple chip, if not outperform it?

You're talking about issues that matter to people running benchmarks and hoping for 3 more points.

You added $130 to the cost of the system, but what value was added other than beiing AMD and not Intel?

[SpHeRe31459]

Wow and all this after all of what I said in the other thread about CPU architecture?
You DO NOT want any sort of Intel Pentium 4 (or Pentium D which a dual-core P4), they run incredibly hot. Think I'm full of it? look at the power consumption numbers:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article313-page5.html

Also I don't wish to be mean here, but if you think the stock cooling included with a P4 is quiet you might want to check your hearing.

FYI: the Smithfield (8xx series) is the worst of the Pentium D family, the newer Presler core (9xx series) is at least a tiny bit cooler.

[SuperG]

Wow and all this after all of what I said in the other thread about CPU architecture?
You DO NOT want any sort of Intel Pentium 4 (or Pentium D which a dual-core P4), they run incredibly hot. Think I'm full of it? look at the power consumption numbers:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article313-page5.html

Also I don't wish to be mean here, but if you think the stock cooling included with a P4 is quiet you might want to check your hearing.

FYI: the Smithfield (8xx series) is the worst of the Pentium D family, the newer Presler core (9xx series) is at least a tiny bit cooler.

You can lead a horse to water, but making it into Jello takes a whole lot more!

I never said it didn't run hotter. The stock cooler isn't any noiser than my Zalman on high, and the MB can contol the stock cooler to slow it down when it's not under load.....which in PVR is almost always.

[Crim]

The stock cooler is fine for a machine that won't ever see CPU usage over 40-50%. It's a PVR, not a gamer.

Who said anything about gaming? What, you don't use FFDShow? I can't ever go back to not using. Wow, you think the stock cooler is fine for an HTPC?

You're talking about issues that matter to people running benchmarks and hoping for 3 more points.

I didn't realize a cooler more efficent CPU only mattered for benchmarking.

You added $175 to the cost of the system, but what value was added other than beiing AMD and not Intel?

You mean other then a better mobo that intergrates pretty much any TV out option you might need? Other then a cooler running CPU? Other then a more quiet system?

I never said it didn't run hotter. The stock cooler isn't any noiser than my Zalman on high

LOL, and you think thats acceptable?! Man, a Zalman on high isn't anything close to be considered quiet.

The CPU I posted is a Smithfield Dual Core. Will what I posted handle PVR function as well as the Apple chip, if not outperform it?

Nope, sorry. CoreDuo (or just the Pentium Mobiles in general) beat the crap out of the Prescott based CPUs. If "handling PVR function" is all you need then you could have just as easily gone with a limiting Epia based system. You're right you don't need much but thats the kind of thinking that says "one TV tuner is okay."