Record Separate Channels on Bell Satellite

[kenboldt]

First, I apologize if I am answering something that has been answered before.  I am sure it has, but I have tried searching and haven't found an answer to my questions exactly.  let me explain what I would like to do.

I will be moving later this month, and will be getting satellite service from Bell (formerly ExpressVu).  What I would like to do is have a regular setup with the Bell STB hooked up to my TV, nothing out of the ordinary there.  I would also like however, to have a feed going to my computer and be able to record shows onto my computer.  The hope is that I would be able to record a show that is different from what is being watched on the TV. 

So, the first, and hopefully most simple question is, can I simply split the cable which exits the STB and send one to the TV, and one to a tuner card in my computer, and record a show that is on a different channel that that which is being watched on the TV?  My guess is the answer is no, but I would love confirmation of this.

Next, if the answer above is no, would this second scenario work.  The line from the dish is split and goes to a STB at the TV, and to a second STB at the computer.  Obviously they should be able to watch different channels, meaning that I should be able to record something different on the computer than what is on the TV.  I know that much at least.  However, I am very new to this, and am wondering what is required at the computer under this scenario other than a tuner card.  Will I be able to select shows to record right from the computer or do I need to set something special up so that the computer can control the STB in some way?  How difficult is this to set up?  The second STB is only something like $3 a month to rent, so I am not worried about the cost of having the extra STB, but I guess I want to know if it is going to be a nightmare to get this working nicely so that I can just sit at my computer and tell it to record such-and-such a show at such-and-such a time.

A side question is, when a show is recorded on a computer using something like MythTV, what file format is it saved as?  The reason I ask is that for playback of the recorded shows on the TV, I will be using my modified XBOX which just reads the files through a samba share on the network.  I want to make sure that the files are going to be viewable by the XBMC software that is on the XBOX.

Thanks in advance for help answering these questions, as well as any further recommendations I get from anyone.

Cheers,
Ken

[Miller]

First, I apologize if I am answering something that has been answered before.  I am sure it has, but I have tried searching and haven't found an answer to my questions exactly.  let me explain what I would like to do.

I will be moving later this month, and will be getting satellite service from Bell (formerly ExpressVu).  What I would like to do is have a regular setup with the Bell STB hooked up to my TV, nothing out of the ordinary there.  I would also like however, to have a feed going to my computer and be able to record shows onto my computer.  The hope is that I would be able to record a show that is different from what is being watched on the TV. 

So, the first, and hopefully most simple question is, can I simply split the cable which exits the STB and send one to the TV, and one to a tuner card in my computer, and record a show that is on a different channel that that which is being watched on the TV?  My guess is the answer is no, but I would love confirmation of this.

Confirmed. You need the box to watch the channels. The tuner can't do it by itself since it can't descramble the channel. The box does that part and will only descramble one channel at a time.

Next, if the answer above is no, would this second scenario work.  The line from the dish is split and goes to a STB at the TV, and to a second STB at the computer.  Obviously they should be able to watch different channels, meaning that I should be able to record something different on the computer than what is on the TV.  I know that much at least.  However, I am very new to this, and am wondering what is required at the computer under this scenario other than a tuner card.  Will I be able to select shows to record right from the computer or do I need to set something special up so that the computer can control the STB in some way?  How difficult is this to set up?  The second STB is only something like $3 a month to rent, so I am not worried about the cost of having the extra STB, but I guess I want to know if it is going to be a nightmare to get this working nicely so that I can just sit at my computer and tell it to record such-and-such a show at such-and-such a time.

A side question is, when a show is recorded on a computer using something like MythTV, what file format is it saved as?  The reason I ask is that for playback of the recorded shows on the TV, I will be using my modified XBOX which just reads the files through a samba share on the network.  I want to make sure that the files are going to be viewable by the XBMC software that is on the XBOX.

Thanks in advance for help answering these questions, as well as any further recommendations I get from anyone.

Cheers,
Ken

That would work fine. Your box would feed into your tuner. If you use a card like the hvr1600 then you can record everything in SD. If you use a tuner like the HDPVR then any channel in HD will be recorded in HD. These tuners come with an IR blaster that will allow the pvr program to change the channel on your STB to make sure it is descrambling the channel you want to record. The video files are mpeg2 for the 1600 and h.264 for the HDPVR.

[kenboldt]

ok, since I am new to this, I am going to try and go through how I think this works, and hopefully someone can tell me if I am on track or way off base.

I am thinking I would go with a Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 PCI TV Tuner.  So, the Dish connects to the STB that is at the computer, then I just use the regular COAX out from the STB to the COAX in for the tuner card.  Then, I am assuming the IR blaster would be hooked up from the tuner card to the front of the STB in front of the STB IR eye.  Under this setup, the Tuner card would just be set to channel 3 (or 4) same as you would do with a TV, and then the tuner card uses the IR Blaster to change the channel of the STB to the appropriate channel at the appropriate time for recording.

So, the next question I have is regarding EPG.  I am unclear as to how this works.  Do I need some sort of a subscription to download the EPG or can the tuner card somehow get it straight from the STB?  I guess in simple terms, how does the tuner card find out what is on and when?

[Miller]

ok, since I am new to this, I am going to try and go through how I think this works, and hopefully someone can tell me if I am on track or way off base.

I am thinking I would go with a Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 PCI TV Tuner.  So, the Dish connects to the STB that is at the computer, then I just use the regular COAX out from the STB to the COAX in for the tuner card.  Then, I am assuming the IR blaster would be hooked up from the tuner card to the front of the STB in front of the STB IR eye.  Under this setup, the Tuner card would just be set to channel 3 (or 4) same as you would do with a TV, and then the tuner card uses the IR Blaster to change the channel of the STB to the appropriate channel at the appropriate time for recording.

Good so far. Coax is fine, but if you have s-video that will have better quality.

So, the next question I have is regarding EPG.  I am unclear as to how this works.  Do I need some sort of a subscription to download the EPG or can the tuner card somehow get it straight from the STB?  I guess in simple terms, how does the tuner card find out what is on and when?

You have to get your EPG data somewhere. If you buy SageTV, BeyondTV or use MCE then it will be included in your purchase. If you use something free like GBPVR then you have to get it another way. It can either be "scraped" from the internet or other source or you can buy a subscription. For the US, this would be SchedulesDirect at $20/year. I don't remember if they do Canada though.

[kenboldt]

Ok, so this is starting to stray from the original topic, but we are now moving on.  Thanks for all the help.  I just want to be best informed that this might actually work before I start shelling out money for hardware.

So, let's assume that the tuner card is installed, the STB is connected, the IR blaster works to control the STB, so I can simply set my recording schedule on the computer and be hands off of the STB, and have recorded some shows.  I have linux on my computer, so I will likely be using MythTV to do all the scheduling and recording and such.  So now that I have some shows recorded by MythTV, from what I understand, they are in a .nuv file format.  My plan is to use my modded XBOX which is already networked and able to access shares on my computer, to access these recordings and watch them on my TV.  Is there anything I will need to do to make them viewable through XBMC on the XBOX or should I just be able to select the appropriate files and hit play?  Maybe this is a question better asked in the Myth or XBMC forums, but if anyone has insight here, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken

[Miller]

If you use Myth by the way you'll need to find your own EPG data.

I don't think Myth records in .nuv but I could be wrong. I think the recording format is dictated by the tuner card.  But then yes, you should just be able to make them viewable (or copy them to the Samba share automatically) and then stream them to your XBox. I would guess with Myth and XBMC there might even be a plugin that makes them work together already.

[kenboldt]

If you use Myth by the way you'll need to find your own EPG data.

From looking at the Myth site, EPG data can be acquired from Schedules Direct for a $20 annual fee.  If that's what I have to do, then that's what I have to do.

Aside from Myth, what method do I have for scheduling recordings and such under Linux (assuming the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 PCI TV Tuner)?

[Miller]

Myth is the only option I know for linux. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure that Schedules Direct supports Canadian listings.

[Craig]

SageTV has a linux version. EPG data comes with the purchase. Try it for 21 days.
http://www.sagetv.com/download.html

[turajb]

There is also Freevo & a few other lesser TV/PVR apps for Linux.  But they would not be as robust as MythTV, if you are limiting yourself to Linux only TV/PVR apps.

[The Dude]

The format is depends a bit on what mux you are using (this the same with windows) but the .nuv is similar to Microsoft's dvr-ms. It's just a wrapper that goes on the recording and usually you would only see that if you are using a software encoding card. If you are using the HVR-1600 then you can have it record directly to MPEG-2 if you want and that would be perfectly readable by your xbox.

I have never used Myth. I just pulled that from the MythTV wiki. I kind of figured that .nuv was some kind of wrapper because most cards in the end are recording to some form of MPEG.

The default file format for software encoding is a RTJPEG or MPEG-4 video stored in a slightly-modified version of Roman Hochleitner's NuppelVideo (.nuv) container. NUV files are also playable in VLC media player and MPlayer, but can occasionally exhibit problems in A/V synchronization due to the MythTV-specific modifications. It also appears that MythTV is now the single authority on the NuppelVideo file format, since the original author's website has been deleted.

MythTV can also record via hardware-encoder cards and other sources of MPEG-2 digital TV streams like DVB, ATSC and Firewire (from HDTV cable boxes in the United States), so many users of MythTV rarely see NuppelVideo files unless they choose to transcode their files to NuppelVideo to save disk space. In earlier releases, such files were labeled as .nuv, even though they were raw MPEG streams; this has been corrected in recent releases.

Just to add my two cents I think you're best bet as far as PVR applications are concerned for linux would be Myth or SageTV. SageTV you get your EPG data as a part of the purchase and they have been making their software for linux for quite a while now so it's probably going to be pretty well supported. Myth obviously is the most well known linux PVR app. and you can get a distribution with it already installed. You can also look at LinuxMCE which uses Myth and incorporates a number of other elements as well.